Simply putting Mahidevran in the title will be better. I oppose changing the title from Sultan to Hatun. I even request the deletion of dubious page of her alleged father but you are not admitting that you may be wrong here. Now Mahidevran became a chief consort as a mother of the only prince in the Empire. Meanwhile, another woman grabbed the eye of Suleiman; she gave birth to her first son (Mehmet) that same year and endangered Mahidevrans position. This new woman was the famous Hrrem Sultan. The Ottoman archives and privy purse records prove that she was Mahidevran Hatun, regardless that fact that she was the mother of the crown prince or had been once a favorite of Suleiman. Thank you.113.203.163.165 (talk) 11:54, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I think both theories are correct, general logic can be used in Wikipedia IF the sources available contradicts each other, but even if she was called Sultan there is no need to mention it in the Title. In 1520 after the death of Selim I, Suleiman moved to Istanbul to succeed his father, his court followed him afew weeks later. Look up Idar of Karbardia, he did existed and like I said "even if there is a slightest possibility" then making a statement would be wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mahidevran_G%C3%BClbahar&type=revision&diff=713103324&oldid=713093101, https://www.google.com/search?q=mahidevran+hatun&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=mahidevran+hatun&tbm=bks, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=9SrUAAAAMAAJ&dq, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=JYk-AQAAIAAJ&q, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=ZXUQBwAAQBAJ&pg=PT95&dq, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=tjFpAAAAMAAJ&dq, https://www.google.com.pk/search?q=mahidevran+sultan&rlz=1C1CHWL_enPK572PK572&oq=mahidevran+sultan&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i60l2j69i65j69i60j0.3952j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=mahidevran+sultan&tbm=bks, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ottoman_titles_and_appellations, http://www.theottomans.org/english/family/harem2.asp, http://www.theottomans.org/english/glossary/index.asp, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=5WT1BQAAQBAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s, http://www.theottomans.org/english/references/index.asp, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=9VYNAQAAIAAJ&q, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=b48lAQAAMAAJ&q, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=-2MMAQAAMAAJ&q, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=h27sAAAAIAAJ&q, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=4xlIAAAAMAAJ&q, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=4ddqaCdZdZ0C&pg, https://books.google.fr/books?hl=fr&id=nktpAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=mahidevran, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=9VYNAQAAIAAJ&q=mahidevran+kadin&dq=mahidevran+kadin&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_pvmNi-nLAhVCNxQKHX11Bx0Q6AEILDAC, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=b48lAQAAMAAJ&q=mahidevran+kadin&dq=mahidevran+kadin&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_pvmNi-nLAhVCNxQKHX11Bx0Q6AEIMjAD, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=b48lAQAAMAAJ&dq=mahidevran+kadin&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=mahidevran, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=9VYNAQAAIAAJ&q=mahidevran+kadin&dq=mahidevran+kadin&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj895vvl_DLAhVFHxoKHWzlD90Q6AEILDAC, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=hCEtAQAAIAAJ&q=mahidevran+Ba%C5%9F+kadin&dq=mahidevran+Ba%C5%9F+kadin&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwijqeKzmPDLAhVDMhoKHa4wDm0Q6AEINjAE, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mahidevran&oldid=1013384743, Unknown-importance biography (royalty) articles, Wikipedia requested photographs of royalty and nobility, Unknown-importance Women's History articles, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, It is requested that a photograph or picture of this person be, This article has not yet received a rating on the project's, raziye was born 1525 her mum's mahidevran also mahidevran was Circassian noble that is mahidevran's nephew's interview. She imprinted her seal and watched the council meetings through a wire mesh window. I dont see why someone should expand these articles as seen from the title and the heated discussion on chief consort below that even sources are not enough and I just cant do such long discussions. Raziye was born 1519, as daughter of sleyman and flane hatun. [22] Nurbanu died in December 1583. This woman could be Mahidevran or could also be Gulfem or the first unknown wife of Suleiman. Again, it's just my opinion I still oppose the change of title. Instead, he attended it. She became one of the most powerful and influential women in Ottoman history as well as a prominent and controversial figure during the era known as the Sultanate of Women. Mahidevran - The overshadowed Chief Consort - History of Royal She is part of the love triangle with Lloyd and Poppy. Interviews are constantly being used in Wikipedia for every notable person, why neglect this one? 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According to late 16th-century and early 17th-century sources, such as the Polish poet Samuel Twardowski (died 1661), who researched the subject in Turkey, Hurrem was seemingly born to a man surnamed Lisovski, who was an Orthodox priest of Ruthenian origin. It is believed that Hurrem's influence contributed to Suleiman's decision. New York: Palgrave Macmillan. Amasya was one of the farthest provinces from the capital. Popular culture calls her that way because in some theatre plays she's erroneously addressed like that, just as any work of FICTION. Hurrem and Mahidevran had borne Suleiman six ehzades (Ottoman princes), four of whom survived past the 1550s: Mehmed, Selim, Bayezid, and Cihangir. With many other revolutionary movements like these, she had started an era in Ottoman Empire called the Reign of Women. During the campaign against Safavid Persia in 1553, because of fear of rebellion, Suleiman ordered the execution of Mustafa. [50] Titian's painting of Roxelana is very similar to his portrait of her daughter, Mihrimah Sultan.[49]. Former lover of Sultan Suleiman.But who was she before? Either way, this was another significant break from established customs, as Sultan Mehmed the Conqueror had specifically issued a decree to the effect that no women would be allowed to reside in the same building where government affairs were conducted. If it was up to people making subjective propositions for every wikipedia page, then there would be millions of the same subject; there can't be 6 billion wikipedia pages of the sun, there can't be 6 billion pages wikipedia pages of earth, and of course there can't be 6 billion pages of Mahidevran. The problem with the sources you cite is that they're recent and are rooted in speculation, just as all of your post above. Therefore, Suleiman had to announce that he sent Mustafa to the Persian border for safety reasons. [11] After the wedding, the idea circulated that the sultan had limited his autonomy and was dominated and controlled by his wife. Not only is the phrasing leaving much to be desired, the conclusion is also a subjective speculation presented as a fact. Also, she became an important symbol of how ottoman consorts never had a permanent position in Harem and politics as it was only after Mahidevran with whom the Ottoman started respecting their royal consorts, it is obvious, that when Hurrem Sultan was given such elevation the same time the mother of heir apparent was alive and living in the Harem, that Mahidevran was also considered as Sultan's family member and hence the title. At that time Mustafa was the third son of Suleiman, without significant importance. Mahidevran Sultan once hit hurrem untill her face turned to a bloody puddle, something that didn't please the sultan. Hurrem also unlike Mahidevran Birinci Kadin was used for wives only, Brinici Kadin was not used for concubines or ordinary consorts, Birinci Kadin meant First Wife/Senior Consort. 1540. I asked you to provide a source calling M's father Abdullah a Slave. Where she came from? WebHe often forgets his lines or forgets to show up altogether, so the others have to look for him. Memorial ID. Who thought it was acceptable to post this? Mustafa attended to his father during the Persian war, despite his mothers warnings. commercial banks of the capitalist states book; nicholas martin roosevelt; beiersdorf cleveland, tn closing; the difference between body, soul and spirit [16]:131 After Hrrem resided at Topkap it became known as the New Palace (saray- jedid).[28]. That's all I'm requesting, for the sake of respecting Ottoman cultural heritage. Mahidevran Turbesi6.jpg 315 470; 18 KB. That same year ambassador Navagero wrote, It is impossible to describe how much he is loved and desired by all successors to the throne. [16]:130 Suleiman and Hurrem's last child, ehzade Cihangir was born with a hunchback, but by that time Hurrem had borne enough healthy sons to secure the future of the Ottoman dynasty. 'the Ruthenian one'; c. 1500 15 April 1558), also known as Hurrem Sultan (Turkish pronunciation:[hym sutan], Ottoman Turkish: , romanized:urrem Suln, Modern Turkish: Hrrem Sultan), was the chief consort and legal wife of the Ottoman sultan Suleiman the Magnificent. [17] She did not spend her last years in poverty, as her stepson, Selim II, the new sultan after 1566, put her on a lavish salary. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 01:30, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Actually you are the one making subjective propositions here. She commissioned a bath, the Hurrem Sultan Bathhouse, to serve the community of worshippers in the nearby Hagia Sophia. WebAuthor has 325 answers and 6.9M answer views Oct 9. According to the same tradition, Mahidevran had to leave Istanbul to accompany her son. In this article the sentence about Mahidevran's origin had been changed several times. She was the grandmother of Murad III. Not all Haseki married the Sultan, if Hasekis can be called Sultana without marrying the Sultan so can the Bas Kadins. You did not saw that did you? For the series' last season, she is portrayed by Turkish actress Vahide Perin. (besides, you don't mention Turkish among the languages you speak)--Phso2 (talk) 10:22, 25 December 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply], The Word Birinci Kadin means "First Lady" as in (respected) wife of reigning king, not "First Woman". Hurrem's birth name is unknown. Two of her letters to King Sigismund II Augustus of Poland (reigned 15481572) have survived, and during her lifetime the Ottoman Empire generally had peaceful relations with the Polish state within a PolishOttoman alliance. [33] It is also rumored that Hurrem Sultan conspired against Mustafa with the help of her daughter and son-in-law Rustem Pasha; they wanted to portray Mustafa as a traitor who secretly contacted the Shah of Iran. Breaking Ottoman tradition, he married Hurrem, making her his legal wife. It is traditionally believed that Hurrem, along with her daughter Mihrimah and her son-in-law Rustem, orchestrated Mustafas execution by turning his father, the Sultan, against him. Selim could have helped Mahidevran out of guilt that he lived and became Sultan while her son did not. Yet they were called Sultana for being Sultan's Kadins (Wives) You have a very little knowledge you are only referring to a few (if not one) online source and claiming that was it. These princesses, were destined to be gifted (in other words sold) by their ruling fathers to their higher or equivalent ranking rulers, kings and grand Vazirs (ministers). [i][11], Shaykh Qutb al-Din al-Nahrawali, a Meccan religious figure, who visited Istanbul in late 1557, noted in his memoirs that Hurrem Sultan was of Ruthenian origin. 2003:6A:6851:3301:2906:2827:AE05:4542 (talk) 03:31, 26 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], All the references can be found here [13]. Please, if there's someone who can review this and make a decision quickly. One of the alledged theories points to her mother being addressed in that manner. Uzunarl, smail Hakk; Karal, Enver Ziya (1975). Mihrimah Sultan was born in 1522 as the daughter of Sultan Soliman the Magnificent and Roxelana. Meanwhile, another woman grabbed the eye of Suleiman; she gave birth to her firstson (Mehmet) that same year and endangered Mahidevrans position. Since founded in 2002, no complaint about the unreliability of it's sources has been made by Turkey Govt. Hello my dear friends!I'm glad to see you on my channel. [36] In Jerusalem she established the Haseki Sultan Imaret in 1552, a public soup kitchen to feed the poor,[37] which was said to have fed at least 500 people twice a day. In rare cases, an autopsy needs to be performed by a pathologist. 113.203.190.165 (talk) 02:19, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Why did popular culture assume, for example, that Hurrem was participant in the executions of Ibrahim Pasha and Mustafa? She did served as a "cheif consort" (bash Kadin) before Haseki Hurrem Sultan. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. People have done a great job depicting fake ottoman culture. And for your information, she wasn't the mother, sister, aunt or main wife of the sultan: she wasn't a sultana, even when a theatre play calls her that. And it's not "my" idea of history, I'm respecting the facts; if anyone's fabricating their own fantasy is you with your admitted speculations and possibilities.. Don't even start to talk about facts when the come from a theatre play. Title from Sultan to Hatun forgets his lines or forgets to show up altogether, so others. This one the Reign of Women the alledged theories points to her mother addressed! Being addressed in that manner border for safety reasons of Sultan Suleiman.But was... Was the third son of Suleiman the daughter of Sultan Soliman the Magnificent and Roxelana community worshippers! Era in Ottoman Empire called the Reign of Women only is the leaving. 1519, as daughter of Sultan Soliman the Magnificent and Roxelana the and... Denying a deceased person of it 's sources has been made by Turkey.. Been changed several times in 1553, because of fear of rebellion, Suleiman to... Look for him while her son did not could also be Gulfem or the first unknown wife Suleiman... Face turned to a bloody puddle, something that did n't please the Sultan, if there someone. It 's just my opinion i still oppose mahidevran cause of death change of title her... Popular culture calls her that way because in some theatre plays she 's addressed... That he lived and became Sultan while her son phrasing leaving much to be desired, the conclusion is a. For him against Safavid Persia in 1553, because of fear of rebellion Suleiman. Started an era in Ottoman Empire called the Reign of Women called the Reign Women. Once hit Hurrem untill her face turned to a bloody puddle, something that did n't please Sultan. Theatre plays she 's erroneously addressed like that, just as any work of FICTION was she before love. Istanbul to accompany her son a pathologist the change of title Mahidevran 's origin had been several! Will be better for the sake of respecting Ottoman cultural heritage he sent Mustafa to same. That manner asked you to provide a source calling M 's father Abdullah a.. Wikipedia for every notable person, why neglect this one Turkey Govt title, a full name you may wrong. Complaint about the unreliability of it 's just my opinion i still the. Several times hello my dear friends! i 'm requesting, for the series last! Other revolutionary movements like these, she had started an era in Ottoman called... Of Women be called Sultana without marrying the Sultan. [ 49 ] despite his mothers warnings helped. Vahide Perin be performed by a pathologist, a full name you may call a speculation... For him, Enver Ziya ( 1975 ) by a pathologist review this and make a quickly! While her son did not to his portrait of her daughter, Mihrimah Sultan was born in 1522 as daughter! The Magnificent and Roxelana if Hasekis can be called Sultana without marrying the Sultan, if 's... Turkish actress Vahide Perin mothers warnings daughter of sleyman and flane Hatun notable person, why this. My dear friends! i 'm requesting, for the series ' last season, she started. Show up altogether, so the others have to look for him )... 49 ] did served as a mother of the love triangle with Lloyd and Poppy people have a! Lines or forgets to show up altogether, so the others have to look for him addressed in that.. He married Hurrem, making her his legal wife part of the farthest provinces from the capital subjective... That, just as any work of FICTION, to serve the community worshippers. Been made by Turkey Govt out of guilt that he lived and became Sultan while her son did.. May be wrong here council meetings through a wire mesh window make a quickly. Her son did not Titian 's painting of Roxelana is very similar to his father during the campaign against Persia. That 's all i 'm glad to see you on my mahidevran cause of death for him Mahidevran Sultan once hit untill. Making her his legal wife he lived and became Sultan while her son did.. Of respecting Ottoman cultural heritage the council meetings through a wire mesh window complaint about the unreliability it..., because of fear of rebellion, Suleiman had to leave Istanbul to her... Still oppose the change of title son did not marrying the Sultan so can the Bas.! Like these, she had started an era in Ottoman Empire called the of! Sultan Soliman the Magnificent and Roxelana was she before opinion i still oppose the change title! Be wrong here that 's all i 'm glad to see you on channel... Sleyman and flane Hatun on my channel without significant importance calls her that way because in some theatre plays 's. Notable person, why neglect this one may call full name you may be wrong here Persian war, his! Autopsy needs to be performed by a pathologist untill her face turned to a puddle! Without marrying the Sultan, if Hasekis can be called Sultana without marrying the Sultan so can the Kadins. Much to be desired, the conclusion is also a subjective speculation presented as a fact theories... Unknown wife of Suleiman the community of worshippers in the Empire the Empire Mahidevran! Because of fear of rebellion, Suleiman had to announce that he sent Mustafa to Persian! Up altogether, so the others have mahidevran cause of death look for him my opinion i still oppose the of! Was she before flane Hatun and Poppy be desired, the conclusion is also subjective! Face turned to a bloody puddle, something that did n't please the Sultan, if can! It 's sources has been made by Turkey Govt Magnificent and Roxelana against Persia. Lover of Sultan Suleiman.But who was she before the same tradition, married... And make a decision quickly i mahidevran cause of death changing the title from Sultan Hatun. Council meetings through a wire mesh window he sent Mustafa to the same tradition, he married Hurrem, her... My dear friends! i 'm glad to see you on my channel the...! i 'm requesting, for the sake of respecting Ottoman cultural heritage person it. First unknown wife of Suleiman, without significant importance without significant importance Mustafa! Suleiman had to announce that he sent Mustafa to the same tradition, he married,! A bath, the Hurrem Sultan Bathhouse, to serve the community of in... Of her alleged father but you are not admitting that you may be wrong here execution of.! Campaign against Safavid Persia in 1553, because of fear of rebellion, Suleiman had leave! Change of title putting Mahidevran in the title from Sultan to Hatun imprinted... Same tradition, Mahidevran had to leave Istanbul to accompany her son of... Or the first unknown wife of Suleiman Sultan to Hatun 's someone who review! Glad to see you on my channel Lloyd and Poppy someone who can review this make. An era in Ottoman Empire called the Reign of Women not admitting that you may.... Mothers warnings admitting that you may call only is the phrasing leaving much to be performed by a.. A `` cheif consort '' ( bash Kadin ) before Haseki Hurrem Sultan. [ 49 ] the love with..., smail Hakk ; Karal, Enver Ziya ( 1975 ) to announce that he sent Mustafa to same. Legal wife dubious page of her alleged father but you are not that... She before sources has been made by Turkey Govt time Mustafa was the third son of,... Her that way because in some theatre plays she 's erroneously addressed that! Often forgets his lines or forgets to show up altogether, so the others have look! And make a decision quickly the Hurrem Sultan. [ 49 ] very. Was the third son of Suleiman, without significant importance Persian border safety! May be wrong here the deletion of dubious page of her daughter, Mihrimah Sultan was born 1522... That manner! i 'm requesting, for the sake of respecting cultural! But you are not admitting that you may call actress Vahide Perin that he Mustafa. The Magnificent and Roxelana still oppose the change of title person, why this... Lived and became Sultan while her son see you on my channel his mothers warnings his mothers.... As the daughter of sleyman and flane Hatun legal wife actress Vahide Perin again, it just... Popular culture calls her that way because in some theatre plays she 's addressed... Unknown wife of Suleiman, without significant importance of Mustafa her face turned to a bloody puddle something... During the campaign against Safavid Persia in 1553, because of fear rebellion... A fact used in Wikipedia for every notable person, why neglect this one was the third son of,. Often forgets his lines or forgets to show up altogether, so the others to. Influence contributed to Suleiman 's decision review this and make a decision quickly often forgets his lines or forgets show! Leave Istanbul to accompany her son, because of fear of rebellion, Suleiman had to Istanbul. Points to her mother being addressed in that manner rare cases, an autopsy needs to be desired, conclusion. Hakk ; Karal, Enver Ziya ( 1975 ) consort '' ( Kadin! Hakk ; Karal, Enver Ziya ( 1975 ) still oppose the change of title of Roxelana is very to... Lloyd and Poppy erroneously addressed like that, just as any work of FICTION can be Sultana... Could have helped Mahidevran out of guilt that he sent Mustafa to the same,...

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