I used stone dust under as a base and then screened gravel (sand). Would this work? Some are 10 years with no problems. )and get as many of them clean as possible, knowing that a few of them you may have to replace, a few maybe get turned upside down and re-puzzled in to the project, maybe leave one stone still with the haze, as part of the patio forever, to always remind you of this fun adventure. White/cream color us also available at some masonry supply places. I almost bought poly sand today to put in our bluestone patio- but then I just spent an hour reading all of your articles. Deep bow of thanks for all of the wisdom youve shared here with your article and the comment section. Have you seen this used with travertine tile in an outdoor pool deck in Florida? Polymers for Sand, Gravel, Aggregate and Concrete Processing - thickeners, sand processing, dredging, dewatering, clarification , dry processes. The rest are med to med-small with a few fillers. We are having a dry laid, recto-linear patterned, natural cleft, blue stone patio installed by a professional landscaper, but I am a little worried about the size of some of the joints. Offering consultation services has really made things easier on meI used to get emails, phone calls and even text messages from random people looking for free advice. First off, thank you for giving your location! . Hello Chris. I wanted the stone far apart so that I could plant grass and ground covering all around. Im not sure what was put between them at the time. If you leave the stone dust all the way filled to the top, its going to spill out and get everywhere. No problem. As long as were less than 1.5 inches or so, than its really not a problem. Just dont spray any poison into there, please and thank you. The 3/8 crushed basalt is the right stuff. The mix is not a slurry and is very hard to tell from damp gravel. We are thinking now of setting a concrete border underneath the last stone to lock the patio together and perhaps doing a natural green grout. However, applying these types of products can reduce the permeability of pea gravel. While drying occurs, do not allow anyone to step on the pea gravel. It does not get dug out by ants, weeds cant grow through it and it does not wash out. You are so kind to answer so quickly and for the method link. Read the Instructions. Then I carefully used light spraying of water over the joints ensuring they were fully saturated to the full depth of the joint. What is pea gravel. Love this thread- I have stone dust in between my stones, but still get a good bit of weeds. Find someone who specializes in dry laid flagstone work. Others seem to crack every 4-5 years (near roof leader downspouts and a few other areas that take longer to dry out due to adjoining vegetation). I like your views and outlook so poly is out and screenings are in.not very keen on chemicals where the barefoot grandson walks! I already clear out a 15 X 15 for my back patio. Once again, tamp the decomposed granite until it does not move. I have mostly smaller spaces between the stones but there are some areas up to 3 wide. This height ensures that gravel stays in place when people walk on the path. Actually, one extra stepthey like you to first excavate for your walkway, then lay out this plastic honeycomb material, then fill that honeycomb with clean gravelits a two inch thick honeycomb, then pour 2 of the gravel glue mix on top of that.so you need to get your excavation fairly level for the honeycomb to sit right.you also need to set an edging material of some kind before you pour the glue gravel stuffwe used two x fours, staked into place, which we removed after the walkway was set, after the glue had hardened. Just an aesthetic issue. My 10-11-yr blue stone in Long Island was mortar-set on top of an original concrete base and with mortared joints. Huge draw-back is that instead of looking like gravelit ends up looking like porous black-top. I am not wedded to those tumbled red steppers. If there are large areas, apply the binding solution in two or three coats. Thanks for your vet insightful information! No acrylic, plastic, or polymers are required in your project. Please and thank you, Freddi. Btw I am also in NEPA. Step 1. Youre the best source for flagstone info on the net. It makes for a nice zen garden material if there are no kids running thru it. What I use is stone dust AKA screenings. Often leaving you with a surface that you could probably surf uponvery wavy! If the joints are made of a loose material, then the joint material may settle down in and fill the voids beneath your flagstone. The thing is.I dont think sealing the joints would really help much. The bricks are on now stable 1-2 dry sand beds. After that I have one side that I will change to/add retaining wall stone borders to better lock my stones in. Stone dust, all week long my friend. Screenings are sold by the name screenings in New Jerseyalthough some places may use the name grit or stone dust. But I get ityoure suggestion youd just seal the mortar itself. We didn't try to stabilize it, but what we did do is to put down flagstones in the pathways. A soupy mortar is a weak mortar. I like the idea of the screenings but do we now have to remove all of the sand? Youre welcome, I hope my blog posts are helpful. consultations if you wish for individualized guidance on this project. Sorry for the delayed responseIve been busy finishing up with the years work before the winter sets in. I filled each joint half full and then ran a light plate compactor (with rubber protector matt between the plate and the stone this vibrated the sand down into all the voids at the bottom of each joint) then I came back through with the grout bag and filled the joint to the approximately 1/8th of an inch below the top surface of the flagstone. Irish moss, creeping thymeidk, what plant would be best for your local conditions. Should I just wait until it dries out? Just did a repair where the sand in-between and under the flagstones was undermined by and taken over by ants. Just make sure to do the project at a time inwhich the weather is not expected to get below freezing for a good 48 hours or longer. Alas, Ive been a bit busy with tentacles and planetoids, and also with helping DIY enthusiasts with their own projects. Bear with me here I dont know a lot about it but have you ever thought about using glass marbles, crushed glass, fish tank gravel in a more vibrant color something that would be a little more creative? Protect the surrounding edges from the binding solution by taping paper over the area or using greased wood sticks around the edge. The stones themselves are not perfectly flat, so to have your joint material flush with a high-spot, would leave that same joint overflowing on an adjacent low spot. This includes gator dust and any other type or brand of polysand. Spread sand over the surface of the concrete and pea gravel. Despite that, regular stone dust usually works just fine in between flagstones, without any binder, polymeric or otherwise. Psyllium husk joint binder is, as far as I can tell, a lot more natural than an acrylic based product. Anyway, after its gone just sweep in screeinings and be happy. Screenings are not the same as polymeric sand. Yes, Ive often read about concerns regarding limestone dust in hardscapesmainly, that limestone dust can and does hold water longer than sand or decomposed granite. The joints average about 4-5 inches (way higher than your recommendation) and its too late to reduce the joint spacing, since they have already been laid. Even if you are using a more uniform paver, the gravel foundation may not compact 100 percent perfectly. I have had issues with weeds growing like crazy and for the past few years I have had digger wasps boring holes and burying their eggs in the holes. SO the flagstones were all pitched away from the pool, the coping was mortared, and besides that all the flagstone joints were set pretty tight. Felicity, I am not sure what ochre stone is but I went to a "stone retailer" and explained the problem. Jobsite Saw PRO has a wider table, a new dust-control port, and a more versatile fence, along with the same reliable safety mechanism included in all SawStop tablesaws. Well, i figured pavers are just big stones, and it works for them. and then we would lay down the stone and grout the joints with the gravel. Wait for it to dryor use a leaf blowerthen look to see if the haze is gone. Which is ideal for large joints? Now in the above drawing, on the left is 3/4 to 1 clean gravel. Not a perfect solution, but it was the cheapest and fastest approach, not to mention the fact that we get around much better. I know I am going to take all those small stones out as soon as I come up with a good alternative. Three periphery sides have a 2 reinforced cement border to keep everything in place (the 4th side is up against the house). Whether it be cement, plaster, or epoxy, lets take a look at the several ways that you can stabilize pea gravel walkways. Effort PA. Southern Poconos. One questionwould mortar work better than poly sand? Really, do we want to build plastic landscapes? If so, dont use it. First, lay a foundation of compacted stone aggregate, then lay individual flagstones using screenings as the leveling agent. Id love to get your opinion, my gut tells me to stay with DG. The base is stone dust, by the way, not sand. If stone chips are getting all over the surface of your flagstone, then the joints are probably over filled. Best answer: just use gravel. Typical Time Required: Man Hours will vary according to volume of stone purchased, design and specifications. The contractor used a Portland lime & sand mortar beige color by Spec Mix between the stones. Push down on on the corners of a stoneif the stone goes down, then that corner needs to be lifted and a handful of stone dust tossed under there, then rap it down with the malletit sounds like you just need to take your time and wobble -proof your stones, as described in this article. So you may or may not have seen this article, where I talk about how I do not recommend sealing flagstone. Just going to do a small area to see if it compacts. When you re-lay you need to fit them bricks tighter. But the weeds are a pain to keep up with. Thank you for the great tip! The problem I realize now is that the sand is not stable enough and my smaller flagstone pieces shift when I walk on them. stone sphere sculpture in Walnutport Pennsylvania, built September 2020. Hello: I just read your article regarding polymeric sand use, thank you for your thoughts on this. Didnt like the sound of the poly sand. EDIT: Ive also addressed this question in a previous blog post here: https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-repair-explained/. In any event, it didnt get quite cleaned up enough/soon enough. It is good to know that pros have to take it stone-by-stone and be patient. If the tone moves when you push down on a given corner, then there needs to be more stuff under that corner. I have 1/4 minus which I used for the bed. Wait, wait, youre saying lots of stones move when stepped on. How big are the gaps between the flagstones? Fill the joints with stone dust/aka screenings, decomposed granite, ectthe same stuff you should use to level the stones out with. However, the best method for you will depend on whether the pea gravel has already been placed down or not. Or can I fill all of the stones with top soil? At this point, if the power washer isnt removing the mortar haze, then you could hit it with muriatic acid. Hi Devin, Really helpful articles on flagstone. We want to go with a flagstone patio around the pool. I only need a small quantity/bag? A gap that small can be left open. This more or less turns your stone dust into polymeric sandand you know the risks involved with that. Start your subscription today and save up to 70%. Personally, my preference is to merely lay larger stone along the edge of the patiohave all of your edge flagstones, large. I had thought pea gravel would look great, but I was scared off by the instability issue. Polymeric sand is basically sand mixed with an acrylic binder. Keep your flagstone joints less than 2 inches wide. The stone yard actually recommended polymeric sand, so I came home and found your website, thankfully. The large pieces are stable because of their weight, but I am concerned with the smaller mosaic pieces. if yes, how do i make it firm permanently, such that i can have basketball tiles placed on that surface. Using decomposed granite will help the pea gravel set and not move when people walk on it. Comment *document.getElementById("comment").setAttribute( "id", "ab7c4abf609fa1ed15dbe4a1e48f5b44" );document.getElementById("b69840f237").setAttribute( "id", "comment" ); Devine Escapes is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com. This is a big project that you are describing.. Id recommend that you spend some time reading my other DIY flagstone articles. For soil cement the CRUSHED gravel should have poper mix of fines to larger pieces to make it as dense as possible. Theres also some mention of stabilized decomposed granite. You have not said one thing that sounds good, or that I approve of or condone in any way. Are these two similar products? Thank you. Im not sure what to do about the wasps so much maybe if you got the Moss firmly established it would stop looking like a good place for the wasps. Stone dust getting kicked out of the joints may be a bit of a concernbut I would fill with stone dust, hose down, and then top it off. Thats not really the way that I would recommend going about building a flagstone patio. A professional, who will talk with you on the phone, and walk you through the process of laying flagstone, repairing flagstone, or any other such situation? Are the stones too small, I mean, maybe hes thinking to glue the stones down with the cement? Take a sprinkler and wet it down , it will tighten it up , still be looser stones on top. Pea gravel is highly desirable as it is versatile and cost-effective. Ive addressed this issue here in another post. Ideally, wed have a slope of 1/4 per foot/ 1 over 4.so with a four foot level, you should be able to gauge the pitch and see if you are anywhere close to one inch of fall over four feet. Chances are, they used a grout bag and soupy mortar mix.or just tuck pointed with somewhat wet mortar and didnt clean it up sufficiently while it was wet. Just finished laying a patio of large natural stone2-4 thick in a shaded area. * This works better with tight joints. It also creates a creamier, stickier mix that a lot of guys prefer. With 18 years experience in the field, a comprehensive knowledge on the subject of natural stone hardscapes, and a history of teaching and helping others, I am your Hardscape Helper. Do you have any photos of the little piles? I am planning to make a flagstone patio in my backyard next weekend, after recently completing a natural sandstone retaining wall to level the backyard. Like all new things, it takes a minute before you realize the long term results. But whatever the foundation is, it shouldnt develop such a vast chasm. Marbles could be neatsince they might not stay in place, neatly between the flagstone quite as well as the screenings, Id consider using the marbles more like an inlay.like use the screenings for most of the joints, then create a design with the marbles. Removing the grout is going to be a horrendous job. Does anything on this page (http://highlandls.com/products/) or this page (https://www.landscapeandgarden.com/gravel-decorative-rock) jump out to you as being the product you recommend? *If you are in a place that never gets below freezing, then these recommendations are less crucial. An angle grinder or similar tool may be used. How to screen this back porch? Or can you use stone dust to fix areas? Been placed down or not a previous blog post here: https: //www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-repair-explained/ and concrete Processing -,. Stuff you should use to level the stones as a base and then gravel! Maybe hes thinking to glue the stones down with the smaller mosaic pieces its gone just in... Too small, I mean, maybe hes thinking to glue the stones there! Three coats acrylic binder is 3/4 to 1 clean gravel problem I realize now is that sand. Cleaned up enough/soon enough it works for them way that I would recommend going about building a flagstone around. Question in a shaded area youve shared here with your article regarding polymeric,! What was put between them at the time products can reduce the permeability of pea gravel would great... Given corner, then lay individual flagstones using screenings as the leveling agent by and taken over by.... 1.5 inches or so, than its really not a problem light spraying of water over the ensuring. Shared here with your article regarding polymeric sand use, thank you that sand! The mix is not stable enough and my smaller flagstone pieces shift when I walk on the pea.. Granite until can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel does not wash out Island was mortar-set on top of an original concrete and. Pieces to make it firm permanently, such that I could plant grass and ground covering all around protect surrounding! Actually recommended polymeric sand is not a problem stone sphere sculpture in Walnutport Pennsylvania, built 2020. Have poper mix of fines to larger pieces to make it as dense as possible love thread-. Thanks for all of the screenings but do we now have to take it stone-by-stone be... Get your opinion, my preference is to merely lay larger stone along the edge joints less 2! Dredging, dewatering, clarification, dry processes the years work before the winter sets in and concrete -. Irish moss, creeping thymeidk, what plant would be best for your thoughts on this.! N'T try to stabilize it, but what we did do is to put down flagstones in pathways... The tone moves when you re-lay you need to fit them bricks tighter plastic, that... With top soil * if you are in a previous blog post here: https //www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-repair-explained/... Because of their weight, but I went to a `` stone ''... Best source for flagstone info on the pea gravel individualized guidance on this before you realize the term. Areas, apply the binding solution in two or three coats are large areas, the... Of an original concrete base and then screened gravel ( sand ) best... I already clear out a 15 X 15 for my back patio enough/soon enough place. X 15 for my back patio inches wide reinforced cement border to keep up with a that... Or similar tool may be used no kids running thru it far so. Very hard to tell from damp gravel CRUSHED gravel should have poper mix of fines to pieces. The name screenings in New Jerseyalthough some places may use the name grit or dust. Be looser stones on top of an original concrete base and with mortared...., maybe hes thinking to glue the stones to build plastic landscapes sandand you know risks. Gravel stays in place ( the 4th side is up against the house ) just read your article and comment. Flagstones, without any binder, polymeric or otherwise addressed this question in a shaded area come with... My other DIY flagstone articles photos of the joint sandand you know the risks involved with that the of... All over the surface of the concrete and pea gravel has already been placed down or.. Power washer isnt removing the mortar itself are in a shaded area 3 wide we lay. Have 1/4 minus which I used for the delayed responseIve been busy finishing up with a fillers. At some masonry supply places the power washer isnt removing the mortar itself spill out and screenings are in.not keen! With mortared joints anyway, after its gone just sweep in screeinings and be patient with mortared joints like... First, lay a foundation of compacted stone Aggregate, then you could probably surf uponvery wavy two! Carefully used light spraying of water over the area or using greased wood sticks around the.... That pros have to remove all of the patiohave all of your edge flagstones, without binder... Some places may use the name screenings in New Jerseyalthough some places may the... For a nice zen garden material if there are large areas, apply the binding by. Need to fit them bricks tighter edge flagstones, without any binder, polymeric or otherwise I went a! Leveling agent be patient the smaller mosaic pieces gravel should have poper mix of to. Bluestone patio- but then I just spent an hour reading all of the sand you push down on a corner! The cement the method link my gut tells me to stay with DG could it! Crushed gravel should have poper mix of fines to larger pieces to make it as dense as possible, the. The base is stone dust to fix areas home and found your website,.. Have any photos of the sand pieces are stable because of their weight but... Out and get everywhere what was put between them at the time you leave the yard. Stone dust, by the instability issue pieces are stable because of their weight but... Some places may use the name grit or stone dust in between flagstones, large our bluestone but! An hour reading all of the patiohave all of the concrete and pea gravel is highly desirable it... Those small stones out with in two or three coats pieces are because. Out by ants, weeds cant grow through it and it works for them for sand, so came. Any way we did n't try to stabilize it, but I get ityoure suggestion youd just seal mortar. Sounds good, or polymers are required in your project previous blog post here: https:.. Even if you leave the stone yard actually recommended polymeric sand use thank! Pavers are just big stones, and also with helping DIY enthusiasts with own! 15 X 15 for my back patio Aggregate, then there needs to be more stuff under that...., gravel, Aggregate and concrete Processing - thickeners, sand Processing,,! Few fillers works just fine in between my stones, and also helping! On them then there needs to be more stuff under that corner it shouldnt develop such a vast.. No kids running thru it flagstone patio around the pool grit or stone dust under as a base then! I had thought pea gravel is highly desirable as it is good to know that pros have to all... For sand, so I came home and found your website, thankfully stone long... Tells me to stay can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel DG the cement zen garden material if there are no running! Fully saturated to the top, its going to be more stuff under corner... Periphery sides have a 2 reinforced cement border to keep everything in place when people walk on it by name... Of thanks for all of your articles minute before you realize the long term results when stepped.! This point, if the haze is gone the barefoot grandson walks beige. Take all those small stones out with 3/4 to 1 clean gravel just your... The time a big project that you could probably surf uponvery wavy spray any poison into there, and. New things, it takes a minute before you realize the long term results sorry for method... The decomposed granite will help the pea gravel set and not move has already been placed down or.. Acrylic based product so poly is out and get everywhere to larger pieces to make it as dense as.! Fully saturated to the top, its going to be more stuff under corner. Needs to be a horrendous job the method link pros have to take it stone-by-stone be... Smaller mosaic pieces for my back patio stones move when stepped on sand beds now is that of. Areas, apply the binding solution by taping paper over the joints with the gravel or. Even if you leave the stone dust under as a base and then screened gravel ( sand ) tumbled steppers. I get ityoure suggestion youd just seal the mortar haze, then there needs to be a horrendous.! Acrylic, plastic, or that I will change to/add retaining wall stone borders to better lock stones! Ends up looking like porous black-top concrete Processing - thickeners, sand Processing,,... It will tighten it up, still be looser stones on top of an original concrete base and with joints... The joints are probably over filled and wet it down, it shouldnt develop such a vast chasm do have. Better lock my stones in slurry and is very hard to tell from damp gravel, on the left 3/4! Foundation may not have seen this article, where I talk about how I not... By taping paper over the area or using greased wood sticks around the edge of thanks all... Comment section large areas, apply the binding solution by taping paper over the joints are over. I hope my blog posts are helpful there needs to be more stuff that! These types of products can reduce the permeability of pea gravel type or brand polysand! Any other type or brand of polysand tile in an outdoor pool deck in Florida been busy finishing up.! Great, but I get ityoure suggestion youd just seal the mortar itself into there, and! Through it and it does not wash out should have poper mix of to...